This group is about the history of games – board games, card games, gambling, children’s games, video games, role-playing games etc.

Put & Take

You are currently viewing a revision titled "Put & Take", saved on 7 September 2020 at 9:46 am EDT by Jonas Richter
Title
Put & Take
Content
What historical evidence do we have for games with a "put & take" element? That is: There's a central pot/ bank, and some mechanic (usually a randomizer) leading to various outcomes of putting something into the pot, or taking something out. Following this question on the Board Game Studies mailing list some instances were pointed out and are now collected here, very roughly in chronological order. BGS emails Link 1, Link 2

Randomizers/games with explicit put & take instructions

15th century

14-sided Put & Take die

A fascinating 14-sided die dated to the second half of the 15th century carries German put & take commands: "Nimbs gar", "nimbs halb" etc.
  • Described by Renate Puvogel: Spielwürfel, in: Ernst Günther Grimme (ed.): Die Schenkung Peter und Irene Ludwig für das Suermondt-Museum. Köln: Dumont 1982 (Aachener Kunstblätter 51), p. 56.
  • Also discussed by Martin Habel: Der Würfel. In: Christiane Zangs/ Hans Holländer: Mit Glück und Verstand. Zur Kunst- und Kulturgeschichte der Brett- und Kartenspiele, 15.-17. Jahrhundert. Katalogbuch zur Ausstellung im Museum Schloss Rheydt vom 29. Juli bis 25. September 1994. Aachen: Thouet 1994, pp. 127-131 (here: 129).
  • Here's an image: https://rpggeek.com/image/2600425/jasri

16th century

Spinning dice (dreidel, tee-totum)?

Better known examples would be the dreidel, which according to online sources came up in the 16th century, and teetotums marked not with pips or numbers, but with put and take commands (put 1, take 2 etc.). - Unfortunately I know of no hard sources or scholarly literature to back this up so far. A spinning die/ dreidel is shown on P. Bruegels painting of childrens games (dated ca. 1560), but whether it's a die with put & take results or numbers isn't evident.

Pela il Chiu

Pela il Chiu (pluck the owl) is famous example, a dice game with a board showing the put & take instructions for the potential outcomes of rolls with three six-sided dice. Pela il Chiu is documented from the late 16th century onwards.

17th century

Hainhofer, 6-sided put & take die

Greger Sundin points out die from the Pommersche Kunstschrank (i.e. from before 1617), now in Kunstgewerbemuseum, Berlin (inv. P 77b). A silver d6 (9x9x9 mm), with blue champlevé enamel letters, described in Philipp Hainhofer's contemporary inventory as " […] vnd ain geschmeltzter vexier wirfel mit buchstaben mit diser außlegung: N.A. nimb allain, scilicet das deine, L.S. laß stehn. T.A. trinkh auß, S.Z. setz zue, N.G. nimbs gar. N.H. nimbs halb." (Lessing, Julius, and Adolph Brüning. Der Pommersche Kunstschrank. Berlin: Kommissions-verlag bei Ernst Wasmuth A.-G., 1905, p. 44).

Mitelli games

Fatih Parlak (see his PhD referenced under Pela il Chiu, above) points out that almost all of Mitelli's games are designed with this mechanism (e.g. Il Gioco del Aquila and Il Gioco della Verità). He says: "The mechanism is very suitable for typical chance-based printed board games and designers must have felt comfortable using it for their purposes because it allowed them to create games with many different themes."

Long Lawrence/ Laurence

Stick dice from England, four-sided or (later) eight-sided. Described by Willoughby, ca. 1660s
  • Francis Willughby’s Book of Games. A Seventeenth-Century Treatise on Sports, Games and Pastimes. Edited and introduced by David Cram, Jeffrey L. Forgeng and Dorothy Johnston. Ashgate 2003, p. 127. Google Books

18th century

La Géographie Universelle

Fatih Parlak: Later in the 18th century, Tira/Paga was incorporated into Goose games, too, which seems to have increased the possibility of new themes even more (see La Géographie Universelle). In other words, Tira/Paga accommodates countless themes (e.g love, courtship, vices and virtues, history, geography... you name it), which quality was used effectively for didactic purposes as well as propaganda in later periods.

Gioco della Mea

(18th/19th century), a game using a spinning arrow as randomizer

18th or 19th century

Rhombicuboctahedra (d26) from Zöblitz

Although usually correctly recognized as modern, some writers saw them as Roman artifacts. This was defuted by Borhy.  

Games with put & take depending on the changing situation

16th century, maybe 15th cent.

Game of Seven

Games of Seven incorporate a put & take element, but whether you have to put or to take something depends on the current state of the field representing the result of your dice throw. Fields are numbered from 2 to 12, if you roll the number of an empty field, you have to put in a stake. If you roll the number of a field on which there's already a stake, you take it for yourself. Boards for the Game of Seven date back to the 16th century, maybe even late 15th century. Based on contributions by Fatih Parlak, Malcolm J Watkins, Marco Tibaldini, Ulrich Schädler, Greger Sundin, Jonas Richter. This overview was put together by Jonas Richter. Additions and corrections are welcome!
Excerpt
Footnotes


Old New Date Created Author Actions
9 January 2024 at 10:20 am EST Jonas Richter
2 February 2022 at 12:39 pm EST Jonas Richter
28 January 2022 at 5:23 am EST Jonas Richter
19 November 2020 at 4:26 am EST Jonas Richter
11 September 2020 at 2:21 am EDT Jonas Richter
11 September 2020 at 1:59 am EDT Jonas Richter
9 September 2020 at 12:21 pm EDT Jonas Richter
9 September 2020 at 12:17 pm EDT Jonas Richter
9 September 2020 at 12:10 pm EDT Jonas Richter
9 September 2020 at 2:52 am EDT Jonas Richter
8 September 2020 at 1:39 pm EDT Jonas Richter
8 September 2020 at 1:38 pm EDT Jonas Richter
8 September 2020 at 12:18 pm EDT Jonas Richter
8 September 2020 at 7:34 am EDT Jonas Richter
7 September 2020 at 1:47 pm EDT Jonas Richter
7 September 2020 at 1:46 pm EDT Jonas Richter